So, while I haven’t gotten much feedback to my last two Simpsons-related posts, Hawkeye’s response to my 400th episode bashing struck a chord that has been resonating ever since. I was immediately reminded of a scene in High Fidelity between Jack Black (Barry) and John Cusack (Rob). Naturally, I couldn’t find such a small, insignificant scene on YouTube, but with the use of my near-photographic cinematic memory, I wil painstakingly recreate it for you here, now:
(A middle-aged man enters the record store hoping to buy “I Just Called to Say ‘I Love You’” for his daughter. Barry insults the man, saying there is no way his daughter likes that song, unless she is in a coma. The man leaves in a huff. This scene follows, more or less.)
Rob: Nice, Barry.
Barry: Rob, Top Five musical crimes perpetrated by Stevie Wonder in the 80’s and 90’s. Subquestion: Is it in fact unfair to criticize a formerly great artist for his later day sins… Is it better to burn out than to fade away?
That’s it… and yes, I am aware that it is a reference to a Neil Young song, but I find Jack Black’s delivery more memorable. Anyway, the point is that it got me thinking about musicians, TV shows, Movie trademarks and things of that sort that have either quit while they were ahead and faded into oblivion or stuck it out long after they lost their edge. To tell you the truth, I really can’t decide which is better.
Seinfeld, in my mind, is the ultimate example of fading away. Not that Jerry isn’t doing standup and the TV waves are glutted with syndicated re-runs, but this is the perfect example of a TV show writing staff realizing that they have nowhere to go but downhill, and getting out while they are ahead. While I am sad that I will never see a new episode, I am overwhelmed with respect for them.
Happy Days was not a show I ever enjoyed, nor did I ever watch it enough to form a legit opinion, but I bring it up here because it set the standard for burning out, so much so that the phrase “Jumping the shark” (in reference to Fonzie jumping over a shark on water skis) is now a common way of saying that a show is in decline. On that note, I just discovered a website called jumptheshark.com where people can gather to bitch about what TV shows are no good anymore. Ironically, The Simpsons is listed on the “Never Jumped the Shark” hall of fame on that site… so that shows you what I know.
I would not consider myself a huge Star Wars fan, nor would I really call the last 3 iterations burnt out, but I am of the opinion that if George Lucas had just let the first 3 stand alone and dissapeared into Skywalker Ranch for the rest of eternity, the franchise would be much more fondly remembered by history.
How about Austin Powers? #1 - Amazing. #2 - Pretty good. #3 - Piece of Shit. Should have quit while he was ahead. You can’t just have a sequel anymore though. It’s either one and done (because it sucked) or a trilogy. Ocean’s 11-12-13? The Matrix, Matrix Reloaded, Matrix Revolutions? Pirates of the Carribean…? When I heard someone mention The Bourne Ultimatum, I thought it was a joke.
In terms of musicians, you could debate this all day. I think music is a far more subjective art form than visual arts, but that’s just me. That said, I am thinking of a band like Aerosmith. The Rolling Stones are obviously not going anywhere, but you would be hard pressed to find someone who has seen them live recently who would say they are burnt out. Not that I have seen Aerosmith live or was ever a huge fan, but their last two albums of originals came out strong with lots of hype and publicity before flopping and they have released like 2 or 3 “best of’ compilations with the same friggin songs.
Also, with music, the “fade away” people usually die tragically or commit suicide, so it is harder to respect them for “choosing” to hang it up. Maybe I’m over my head talking about this, but it is the art form from which the quote originates so I felt like I had to say something.
Anyway, I am going to go out on a limb and say that it is better to fade away than to burn out. No one wants to see a tired, haggard, once-great artist, TV show, or movie franchise struggling to hold on to their youth. It’s just sad. Sure, The Matrix Revolutions was better than a lot of movies released in 2003 (2 Fast 2 Furious, Bad Boys 2, Cradle 2 the Grave, Freddy Vs. Jason, The Italian Job, Tomb Raider, S.W.A.T., etc.) but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a steaming pile of donkey shit next to the original. When someone or something has been great for so long, good just doesn’t cut it.
The Simpsons is now a good show, but unless they plan on elevating their game back to great, I would love to see them hang it up after the movie… unless it is a good movie, then they should make two more.
btw- Who said, “I’d rather be a has-been than a never-was?” Regardless, it’s good. Much love to The Simpsons and the rest for giving me so much pleasure for so long.
on May 29th, 2007 at 11:58 am #
Ummmm……. You have your phrase backwards. Fading away implies turning to shit, and burning out implies leaving on a high note.
on May 29th, 2007 at 1:12 pm #
I guess I could see that in reference to like a comet or something. But in reference to a person, isn’t someone who is “burn out” someone who is no longer producing good work, while someone who has faded away has simply gone off the radar? I’ll have to look into that…
on May 29th, 2007 at 1:25 pm #
According to this article, Neil Young was very broken up when Kurt Cobain quoted his song in his suicide note, because he had misinterpreted the line. As you can see, I include Kurt in the “Fade Away” category, but he considered himself to have “Burnt Out.” http://www.thrasherswheat.org/jammin/nirvana.htm
on May 29th, 2007 at 3:27 pm #
Also, regardless of your interpretation of the original NY quote, you have to look at the parallelism between the official subquestion “unfair to criticize… for latter day sins?” with the rephrase, “better to burn out than fade away.” It clearly indicates that at least in Barry’s mind “burning out” is the same as committing “latter day sins.” If it is in fact better to burn out than fade away, criticizing Stevie Wonder for making shitty music in the 80’s and 90’s is unfair. So, ummmm, no, I don’t have it backward. That was fun, though, thanks for the feedback.
on May 29th, 2007 at 4:56 pm #
I’m sorry but I agree with Ashblaster. I read the article you linked to, and I don’t think Neil Young was upset that Kurt had gotten the message of the song backwards, more that an artist that Young really admired had killed himself and used Young’s lyrics to explain himself. That’s got to be pretty devastating. Young wrote that song at a time when he was wondering whether or not he could still be relevant in an era where the rock and roll of the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and the 60’s was viewed as completely stale and outdated, replaced by Punk and New Wave. In the song he says ‘it’s better to burn out than it is to rust’. Rusting in this context means getting old, decrepit and useless: a shell of your former self (perhaps like Stevie Wonder in the 80’s). The people he mentions in the song are Elvis and Johnny Rotten. Elvis hung around forever, well past his prime, making horrible cheesy movies and getting fat. Eventually he was doing shows in sequin studded spacesuits in Vegas before he eventually died on his toilet. That’s the quintessential example of a career that should have ended sooner. Elvis faded or rusted away. Johnny Rotten walked off stage at the height of his fame and popularity - really perhaps even before - leaving people wanting more and wondering what the hell just happened. That’s burning out quickly and brightly, like a book of matches all lit at once. Until Cobain came along, he would have been the perfect example of burning out fast.
The lyrics to the song, judge for yourselves:
My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It’s better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.
Out of the blue and into the black
They give you this, but you pay for that
And once you’re gone, you can never come back
When you’re out of the blue and into the black.
The king is gone but he’s not forgotten
This is the story of a johnny rotten
It’s better to burn out than it is to rust
The king is gone but he’s not forgotten.
Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There’s more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Hey hey, my my.
on May 29th, 2007 at 6:28 pm #
It is commonly accepted that the song is about the fall of rock and roll (the King) and the rise of punk (Johnny Rotten). That said, the lines “Rock and roll is here to stay,” “The king is gone but he’s not forgotten,” and “Rock and roll can never die” clearly show that the song is in support of rock and roll, not punk. The message of the song is that NY is committed to burning out playing R&R (like Elvis), and will not simply fade away and let punk take over. Just like a rolling stone grows no moss, tools that remain in use (even fat, old tools like Elvis) do not rust. Tools that have been retired, and no longer serve any purpose (like JR) sit in the shed and rust.
on May 30th, 2007 at 12:35 am #
Ashblaster is right about the Neil Young quote. He also said ‘rust never sleeps’ and he had spent the years leading up to that album turning away from the public and alienating the crowd that had made him a superstar. On subsequent albums he would just play whatever he felt like, as a result getting kicked off a series of different record labels. He was committed to fading away so he could just do his own thing. His revival in the nineties as ‘the godfather of grunge’ brought him back into the spotlight in a weird way, and Kurt Cobain’s suicide was devastating to him (he wrote the song “Sleeps With Angels” as a tribute shortly thereafter), and on tour with Pearl Jam, he went back to his old ways of alienating audiences and stepping away from the limelight. Burning out was not necessarily the quick flash of punk - it was leaving a small body of work and not embarrassing yourself in your later years the way Elvis (and many others) did. He had spent the seventies watching many compatriots burn out on drugs and for a time there was every indication he would do the same until he became disenfranchised with the music business in general. As for Johnny Rotten, his band fell apart in the midst of their first big tour with just one landmark album to their name. By the time Neil wrote the song, he was already in a new and successful undergroudn band of an entirely different type and approaching music as a corporate entity as his former bandmates disappeared into regular jobs or hopeless drug addictions - he blazed bright then went right on to do his own thing on his own terms, something which Neil respected. The song isn’t in support of rock and roll or punk, it’s his epitaph for the seventies, and Neil was absolutely prepared to fade away. There wasn’t a concern of punk taking over by any means, because punk had quite entirely burnt out already, it was a very brief phenomenon like the parallel American Hardcore movement a couple years later on. It left an indelible mark on the face of music but all of the major bands rapidly imploded or adopted other styles (even The Clash were considered an embarrassing self-parody by their second album). In short, Neil Young had missed his opportunity to burn out, having demolished his public image out of disgust for the press in the previous five years, so he set about fading away on his own terms. Johnny Rotten (or John Lydon as he had reverted to his real name already by this point) had burnt out spectacularly and made his mark, allowing him to do whatever he wanted with relatively little scrutiny from the press. An enviable position indeed.
Anyway. Better to burn out. It worked for Mozart.
on May 30th, 2007 at 7:12 am #
It seems that I’m in the overwhelming minority. Wikipedia agrees with you, as well. It seems ironic, though, that NY has continued to play the same music and “fade away” as you say for almost 30 years now. I always thought that was what he meant because the other way doesn’t make sense grammatically, in the context of the other lyrics, or in the context of his career. Maybe he is just a hypocrite. Anyway, the original meaning of my post remains. Just flip the phrase if it will make more sense to you. Sorry.
on May 30th, 2007 at 4:49 pm #
I don’t agree with any of your definitions of “fading” and “burning”! But I’m also not smart enough to engage in this epic debate over song meanings that I’ve never heard before.
Anywho,
“Fading out”: Continuing on but falling from the forethoughts of everyone’s mind while still doing what you’ve been doing all along. Think anyone that isn’t on the billboard top 10 right now. Unless you are a mega-amazing artist using witchcraft (ie: The Beatles), you will typically release and album, fade for a while, then release another album to pick you back up again.
“Burning Out” is losing your edge or talent, or whatever it was that made you so popular to start with.
Fading out implies a retention of talent but becoming less popular; burning out implies a loss of talent but does not imply a popularity change (though it usually does result in it).
Elvis was sort of an anomaly because he faded away but he still had mass hysteria surrounding him. He should have faded out a whole lot more before he died.
on May 30th, 2007 at 8:40 pm #
I hate to disagree with you, weasel, especially when you appear to be the only person born in Canada (including Neil Young) who knows what the phrase “burn out” means in reference to an artist, but there is NO WAY you have never heard that song. If that is really the case, go turn on any classic rock radio station for about 5-10 minutes. You’ll hear it.
on May 30th, 2007 at 9:26 pm #
I’m positive I haven’t; I do recognize it is a popular song however, and the reasoning behind me not hearing it yet… well…
on May 31st, 2007 at 11:59 am #
It’s funny you mentioned the comet, because that analogy kinda works. Take James Dean, his “star” burnt out brightly and quickly, thus ensuring he wouldn’t fade away. You’re getting this confused with the term “burn out” or “burned out” which has different connotations.
on May 31st, 2007 at 12:03 pm #
True, Burn Out and Burned Out are quite different. I mean, one of them is past-tense!
on May 31st, 2007 at 1:19 pm #
A “burn-out” is a person, usually a stoner, who has let bad influences, usually drugs, affect his person to such a degree that he is described as being “burned out”.
This is NOT what the article/Jack Black is talking about, they are using it in a context similar to the James Dean analogy I made.
on May 31st, 2007 at 3:52 pm #
<p>Ash is right again. One more analogy and then I quit. Getting away from music and celestial bodies, let’s talk about Michael Jordan (people love sports analogies, right?!): undisputed king of the hill when he was with the Bulls. Wins back to back to back championship titles in 96 to 98, taking the winning shot on the last play of the last game. He retires as the reigning MVP of the league, MVP of the playoffs, the undisputed best player in the game. That’s going out on top. Burning out brightly.
And if he’d left it there, that might have been a perfect storybook ending. Instead, he comes back three years later at age 38, fatter, slower, barely even able to dunk anymore - a shell of his former self. He limps through 3 seasons like this, a parody of what he used to be, slowly fading away, tarnishing the memory of his former greatness. Jordan in a Wizards jersey: now THAT was fading away.
on May 31st, 2007 at 5:02 pm #
No no no! Jordan didn’t burn out! He retired at the top of his game! (before coming back). His retirement was him fading away - losing focus in the public’s mind’s eye. He never burned nor faded while playing.
When he came back into the league it was him burning out, losing his talent that made him so popular (see my previous comment).
on May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 pm #
1) Burn out:
a. to consume rapidly, esp. to squander
b. to wear out; exhaust; be worn out; become exhausted.
2) Fade away:
a. to lose brightness or vividness of color.
b. to disappear or die gradually
I think these definitions from Dictionary.com are the two most common intended meanings of these phrases. We have all heard them used a million times and we all know what they mean without the need for any analogies. If the sentence “It’s better to burn out than to fade away.” had originally appeared in a vaccum, instead of in the context of a song which mentions Elvis (who fits definition 1b or 2a) and Johnny Rotten (who fits definition 1a or 2b), there would be absolutely no way to know the intended meaning for sure. I have since read an interview with NY confirming that you fuckers are right and I’m wrong. I’m done disputing that. What I want to know is how the HELL you would figure that out without reading an interview with him, when the OVERWHELMING message of the song is “Rock and Roll is here to stay/will never die.” If the song said “Johnny Rotten is gone but not forgotten” I could understand a little more, but even knowing now that my original interpretation was wrong, I don’t see anything in the lyrics that indicate what he really meant. Even the rust analogy, as I mentioned, is backward. Things that remain in use do not rust, even if they are old or outdated. To use one of your beloved sports analogies (though its the same for musicians), players are said to be “rusty” when they have been out of practice or have not played for a while, not when their careers go down hill.
on May 31st, 2007 at 8:09 pm #
I think it’s fairly obvious to anyone who has, you know, not dated beaton. OOOOH DOUBLE BURN
on May 31st, 2007 at 9:15 pm #
Guh?
on May 31st, 2007 at 9:40 pm #
Did I mess up who Beaton dated? She’s dated so many I can’t keep track
on June 1st, 2007 at 12:43 am #
Guh?
on June 1st, 2007 at 1:55 am #
OMG LOOK OVER THERE
on June 1st, 2007 at 10:50 am #
Where are you getting all these animated Gif’s or whatever you call them all of a sudden. You’re like a 13 year old aim user… LOL…ROTFLMFAO
on June 1st, 2007 at 1:38 pm #
This thread has officially flown off the rails.
WTF FTW
midget penis sex…
midget penis sex …
on June 28th, 2007 at 12:28 pm #
Amen, brother.
on June 28th, 2007 at 12:38 pm #
Oh man, Midget penis sex is so much better than midget vagina sex!
on June 28th, 2007 at 9:50 pm #
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